Analog out is still dealing with a preamp stage. On my Oppo for example I have volume control over the analog outs.
Not that it matters. DACs living with a power amp stage in the same box was a solved problem long ago. Properly designed there will be no audible effects.
As for DSD-->PCM, again, not hard to achieve transparency. DSD was actually designed to be converted to PCM. It was not originally meant to be a consumer format.
On 01/31/13 18:15, lokkerman wrote:
Just to throw in some really gritty detail to this – about 3 years ago we looked at which DACs could natively decode DSD. There were about 3 and intended for low end decoders using differential single bit decoding.
Most DACs are ladder types and although accept a DSD input actually convert to PCM inside. I know there are some silly money types that will do the decode but most will only do PCM, so why the issue of doing the decode at source when error checking over PCM connections is now state of the art? Is DSD?
BTW I stick to analogue outputs as I don’t believe that DACs should live in the same box as power outputs, having once designed amplifiers.
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of August Bleed
Sent: 31 January 2013 19:08
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Convert SACD ISO to individual DSD tracks?
Yes it will decode it into PCM. If you don't mind the conversion it's a rather elegant way of getting around being able to play SACDs from a computer. AFAIK still can't be done and gets converted to PCM. I think a couple more DSD capable receivers have come on the market--I don't know if they would handle the DOP protocol. So far the number of outboard DACs able to do this is still in the handful quantity though it's changing rapidly. I think there was some interest in having the plug ins work with HDMI and AVRs but I believe there were some problems with different implementations that prevented this from happening. Some RECENT AVRs came out with USB ports to act as DACs and those MAY be capable of playing them natively. If you are just concerned with playing the iso's without care for PCM/DSD they should play just fine on most equipment over HDMI--it'll just be some version of PCM. Again if someone knows of some gear getting around this there is much interest in native DSD on AVR type equipment. Even a DSD capable DAC doesn't mean that is what you will get--I can get music to my Oppo in a variety of manners but the only way for the DAC to recognize it as DSD without conversion is with a disc.
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:08 PM, Happydog <jrc4sd@gmail.com> wrote:
I have no problems playing .dff using Foobar2000. A composite .dff file will split and play each individual "track" as a properly named and tagged DSD codec trrack with the ID info completely correct within Foobar2000. You simply need to install the DSDIFF Decoder component (latest version is 1.4). The tracks sound tremendous and I have no problem playing them whatsoever... :)
On Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:10:46 AM UTC-7, Blee...@yahoo.com wrote:Just to be clear I was speaking of playing dsf, dff, iso's through a software player on a computer. NOT about DSD over HDMI in general. Of course DSD travels over hdmi since v1.3. I was only speaking to playing these files thru foobar or Jriver over hdmi to a receiver. I hope that I wasn't being condescending about it. I've been following these forums about SACD ripping for a while. As recently as 2 weeks ago the software was unable to do DSD over anything but USB. That isn't to say it's impossible to do so. They just weren't writing the drivers for that. Obviously if you burn the ISO to disc and you have a DSD capable receiver you are going to get DSD. But I believe we are talking about plug ins for software players like Foobar and Jriver. You should let the folks at CA and AudioCircle that you have figured out how to get the software to play native DSD over HDMI through these programs. There is a lot of interest. If you need links let me know.
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:02 AM, August Bleed <blee...@gmail.com> wrote:
- My apologies. Last time I checked with the folks doing the plug ins they didn't support HDMI and there were no plans to do so. If that has changed thanks for letting me know. I do realize that ISO's on a disc will play over hdmi. I was not aware of any solutions that let you play iso's from Foobar or what have you natively without a USB DAC (Im not talking about playing a disc on an oppo). Again if that has changed great news. Recently playing DFF, DSF, and/or Iso's thru a software player on a computer required a USB DAC and wouldnt output as DSD over hdmi--it was all converted to PCM. Again if that has changed great news.
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:52 AM, realafrica <paul....@gmail.com> wrote:
August there are some receivers that will take DSD over HDMI.
I have a Pioneer 610 SACD/DVD-A player (clone of Oppo) it will output
5.1 as well as stereo DSD over HDMI only IF it is connected to the
right kind of receiver, such as the VSX-LX50 or the SC-LX90 (both
Pioneer). The player checks that thr connected component is DSD
capable before it will allow HDMI output of DSD, it the connected
component is not DSD capable then no sound is sent over HDMI.
BTW generally all the USB DAC solutions only have stereo DSD input.
Not sure about the Mytek 8x192 ( I think it called) it is Mch but
maybe not native DSD?
On Apr 23, 1:14 am, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also there at this point may only *be* 3 usb DACs capable of doing DSD.> It's in it's infancy. For reasons I don't understand this same capability
> is not available over HDMI, which obviates a receiver as a device capable
> of doing it. Unfortunately even streaming to the oppo straight from the
> soundcard still results in PCM. I'm sure someone will figure out how to do
> it over HDMI at some point but there doesn't seem to be much interest from
> the folks doing this stuff. A bit of output prejudice...but I guess if
> you're going to do DSD right that would likely be the way to do it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:18 PM, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > @realafrica Everything you said is true except for the receiver part.
> > Receivers will NOT play dsd natively from these or iso's. You must have a
> > dsd capable external USB dac. They will not play another way as DSD.
> > Period.
>
> > August
> > Bleed Inc.
> > Selling art is tying your ego to a leash and walking it like a dog.
>
> > Sent from the BleedPod.
>> > On Apr 22, 2012, at 12:01 PM, realafrica <paul.gam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Noreltny
> > > I really don't understand why you want to make dff or DSF or DSDiFF
> > > files from the iso to just play in foobar or JRMC.
> > > I don't know about the latter, but as foobar plays the iso fine and
> > > will load all the tracks into the player then why convert the iso, to
> > > whatever, at all?
> > > Just use the iso!
> > > I imagine you want to get JRMC to play these files, but it will not
> > > play SACD-R iso?
> > > Does JRMC play DFFs or any kind of DSD file?
> > > If yes, then this is only useful to you IF you have a DSD capable DAC
> > > either in your receiver or as an External DAC.
> > > Without a DSD capable DAC you are wasting your time with DFFs, you
> > > might just as well convert the iso to flac and play those via JRMC.
>
> > > On Apr 22, 2:53 am, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> yes no such thing as .dsd. the dff and dsf are on the iso proper so yes
> > >> the software would have to read both by nature although individual
> > playback
> > >> of dff or dsf on standalone sacd players is elusive. Yes you are
> > correct
> > >> it is just extracting info from the iso to tag ect. It also allows for
> > >> direct dsd playback with proper equipment which 99.999999 percent of us
> > do
> > >> not have.
>
> > >> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Noreltny-gmail <norel...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>> I don’t know what I was doing wrong before, but I am able to import and
> > >>> play the DSF (both stereo and multichannel) with FRMC17 and
> > foobar2000. My
> > >>> mistake earlier, was that I thought I needed to convert the DSF or DFF
> > >>> files to DSD. There is no such thing as a file with a DSD extension.
> > >>> Correct me if I’m wrong, but what the utility is really doing is
> > converting
> > >>> the tracks from the ISO into DSD files and letting me chose either DFF
> > or
> > >>> DSF. With the DSF being more appealing because of tagging, etc.****
>
> > >>> ** **
>
> > >>> Again, thanks for your help.****
>
> > >>> ** **
>> > >>> *From:* surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > >>> surrou...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *August Bleed
> > >>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 21, 2012 5:18 PM
>> > >>> *To:* surrou...@googlegroups.com
> > >>> *Subject:* Re: [SurroundSound] Convert SACD ISO to individual DSD
> > tracks?*
> > >>> ***
>
> > >>> ** **
>
> > >>> DFF files are also DSD. One is a compression scheme so they could fit
> > 5.1
> > >>> material, stereo DSD, and CD layer on the same disc. The other is
> > >>> uncompressed DSD. They use this for SHM-SACDs that are stereo and for
> > the
> > >>> stereo layer generally. The MC one I believe has better tagging and
> > >>> support. You sound like you are generating the right files. It does
> > give
> > >>> you a choice. Again it's really a matter of your hardware after you
> > get
> > >>> the files.****
>
> > >>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 3:13 PM, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:*
> > >>> ***
>
> > >>> dsf files are DSD. If you have a capable USB dac it will play
> > natively.
> > >>> Otherwise if you play it from software it will convert to PCM no
> > MATTER
> > >>> WHAT. You must burn the iso to a disc if you dont have a usb dac that
> > is
> > >>> dsd capable (there are a grand total of 2). But you got what you were
> > >>> supposed to get. DSF files are DSD files. If you can't play them you
> > >>> don't have a usb capable DAC. That's all. These are absolutely DSD
> > files
> > >>> you are creating.****
>
> > >>> ** **
>
> > >>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Noreltny-gmail <norel...@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:****
>
> > >>> Thanks for the info.****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> I’ve almost got it figured out, but not quite. I’m having trouble
> > >>> converting the DSF files to DSD and I’d post a comment on their
> > website,
> > >>> but it won’t currently let me post comments or replies. So, I’ll ask
> > here
> > >>> in case someone in this group has experience with this.****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> Here’s the link to the thread that August is referring to:****
>
> > >>>http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/SACD-ripping-using-your-PS3.
> > ..
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> Here’s a link to the project page, which includes links to download the
> > >>> utilities:****
>
> > >>> Project home:http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/****
>
> > >>> Download page:http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/downloads/list****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> I downloaded the file ‘sacd_extract_0.3.6_WIN32.zip’ and extracted it
> > into
> > >>> a folder that I named “sacdrip’. I copied my SACD ISO file into this
> > >>> directory so it would be easier to work with from a command line
> > prompt.**
> > >>> **
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> I couldn’t find his PDF guide anywhere. If you have a link, I’d really
> > >>> appreciate getting a copy. He does have a link to the instructions,
> > which
> > >>> are here:http://sacd-ripper.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/readme.****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> I’d use the BAT files, but they don’t appear to be of any help in my
> > >>> situation. I followed the instructions in the readme and just tried
> > >>> extracting/converting from the command line. Here’s the steps I
> > followed:*
> > >>> ***
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> 1: From the start menu, I typed “CMD” into the command box (or whatever
> > >>> it’s called). This brings up the command window.****
>
> > >>> 2. From the prompt in the command, I navigated to the “sacdrip”
> > directory
> > >>> where I extracted the file ‘sacd_extract.exe’.****
>
> > >>> 3. The instructions include a list of command options and a few
> > examples.
> > >>> I tried following the examples. First, here’s the list of available
> > options:
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> Usage: sacd_extract [options] [outfile]****
>
> > >>> -2, --2ch-tracks : Export two channel tracks
> > (default)***
> > >>> *
>
> > >>> -m, --mch-tracks : Export multi-channel tracks****
>
> > >>> -e, --output-dsdiff-em : output as Philips DSDIFF (Edit
> > Master)
> > >>> file****
>
> > >>> -p, --output-dsdiff : output as Philips DSDIFF file****
>
> > >>> -s, --output-dsf : output as Sony DSF file****
>
> > >>> -I, --output-iso : output as RAW ISO****
>
> > >>> -c, --convert-dst : convert DST to DSD****
>
> > >>> -C, --export-cue : Export a CUE Sheet****
>
> > >>> -i, --input[=FILE] : set source and determine if "iso"
> > >>> image,****
>
> > >>> device or server (ex.
> > >>> -i192.168.1.10:2002)****
>
> > >>> -P, --print : display disc and track
> > information****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> Help options:****
>
> > >>> -?, --help : Show this help message****
>
> > >>> --usage : Display brief usage message****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> Here’s the usage example I tried:****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> Extract all stereo tracks to multiple DSDIFF files and convert all DST
> > to DSD:****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> $ sacd_extract -2 -p -c -i"Foo_Bar_RIP.ISO"****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> So, after the command prompt, I typed: ****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> sacd_extract -2 –p –c –i”TAPESTRY.iso”****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> I ended up with a folder named “CAROLE KING – TAPESTRY” and 14
> > individual
> > >>> files for each track. However, none of the files were converted to DSD
> > >>> files. All have the extension DFF.****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> I read through the thread on Computer Audiophile and learned that if
> > you
> > >>> are extracting individual files for playback, it is better to extract
> > to
> > >>> DSF before converting to DSD. So, I tried this at the command line -
> > ****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> sacd_extract -2 –s –c –I”TAPESTRY.iso”****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> This time, it created the same folder and generated a bunch of DSF
> > files,
> > >>> again without converting the DSF files to DSD.****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> I also tried using their usage examples to create multichannel DSD
> > files.
> > >>> Again, I was successful at extracting the individual tracks into
> > files, but
> > >>> I couldn’t end up with the DSD files. The conversion step is just
> > getting
> > >>> ignored. I’m not getting any error messages, so the program seems to be
> > >>> working. ****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> Any ideas???****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> Thanks****
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> ****
>> > >>> *From:* surrou...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > >>> surrou...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *August Bleed
> > >>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 21, 2012 1:25 PM> > >>> *To:* surrou...@googlegroups.com
> > >>> *Subject:* Re: [SurroundSound] Convert SACD ISO to individual DSD
> > tracks?*
> > >>> ***
>
> > >>> ****
>
> > >>> Yes you should head over to computeraudiophile.com
>> ...
>
> read more »
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Bleed, Inc.
Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog
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