So to me, it doesn't matter whether these company's make products people enjoy to use and appear to be fulfilling there needs (like I pad's, Ipod, I phone, windblows 7, Itunes or what ever product they make) it is immorally wrong to buy and use them because they lock you in and the more they lock us in the more money they can make. It is all about the bottom line. I am sure this is no new news for many here, from reading many of your response I see there are a few of you who kinda have the "Richard Stallman" philosophy.
But that is why I try to only use Flac and OGG Vorbis and only buy (vote for) products that support those file formats.
What is good for the mega corporations is more often then not never good for the general public, they just make us think it is with propaganda and handcuff us to there technology (why else would you need to "jailbreak" your Ipad's?).
Regards from Iceland
Birgir.
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 5:24 AM, <surroundsound@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/surroundsound/topics
- Surround in the car [20 Updates]
- Joe Satriani "Saturated" Bluray Dolby TrueHD Advanced 96K Upsampling - New Reference Disc or Just a Gimmick? [1 Update]
Joe A <joe.anstett@gmail.com> Nov 29 06:01AM -0800
Regarding Apple and FLAC, Apple and its ecosystem support their own lossless format ALAC. Granted at the moment at only comes by ripping your own CDs in iTunes but if you have a FLAC collection it can be interchangeably converted back and forth with ALAC as there is no generational loss.
Note this applies to 44/16 stereo material. ALAC actually does support high res multichannel but the iDevices are limited in what their DACs can handle.
pj-mckay <johnmckay@btinternet.com> Nov 29 10:49AM -0800
And here's the real CRUX of the matter. Apple supports ITS OWN format.
Why?? Obviously purely to tie folk into their ecosystem further, and
ties in with why I logged on tonight. Many folk questioned the use of flac
and open standards quite rightly, and it reminded me that I also have to
make choices. That's where mp3 hit it off, in the same way as cassettes
did 40 years ago; It's a common format and should be appreciated more,
especially at higher bit rates. (Please don't respond telling me AAC is
lower file size for the same quality; I don't care. It's marginal and
unimportant)
For me....
a) MP3 as it plays on ALL my players whether they be PC, iPod, Creative
Zen, Android, everything.
b) My video has to be converted to a common format (mpeg) and AC3 audio to
play in ALL my video devices. I'm not saying it's the best; just that I
can convert to that successfully.
I have Apple kit in the shape of iphone and pad (from work) and the kids
have ipods and it's greats stuff but I totally abhor an ecosystem that ties
you to them and excludes others. Even to the extent that they tried to
force folk into AAC but at least can play mp3 now. Ooooohh It makes me
angry that they block every other p[layer from itunes.
So.. whilst Apple may support ALAC. Why would ANYONE want to convert open
system flac to something 'as good'? Where's the benefit to me, us? I see
plenty negatives but no positives (but will listen to sensible responses).
On Thursday, 29 November 2012 14:01:25 UTC, Joe A wrote:
Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> Nov 30 12:41AM +0530
Maybe someday this list will get beyond the ignorance that lumps all
MP3s together , ignoring the roles of bitrate, codec, characteristics of
the source music, and playback equipment. But today is not that day,
apparently.
On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman wrote:
> Cannot agree more
and a lot better put than me
> FROM: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
[mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com] ON BEHALF OF realafrica
> SENT:
28 November 2012 07:33
> TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
> SUBJECT:
Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
> I won't attempt to
cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
> I am a great
fan of new technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to play
cassettes in the car because it has no CD player and I would not swap
out cassettes for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor
part of my music collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to
play flac. I fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine
as carriers instead of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over
the place! But, why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac,
just as conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess
any MP3s to play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to
MP3 when it is either flac already or easily converted to flac.
> I
have never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because,
before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software
that played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC
and their player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from
them!
> WTF!
> Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the potential
for the same scenario with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could not play
my growing collection of flac either, so they were pretty useless to me
anyway, as I'd moved on to lossless flac and grown up enough to no
longer have a use for empty3. But that's just me. If others are
satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy it.
> I just can't get it
through my head why this free, open source format called flac is not as
readily available to use in car audio as that other free open source
format called mp3?
> pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I like USB
sticks, even SSDs in the future maybe, but why not put some nice flac on
them rather than empty3? Well I gues you are forced to aren't you? After
all what car audio can play any flac? It's outrageous, it's not
sensible. It's just market forces that always get dumbed down to cater
for the masses and I protest it!
> .
> --
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message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SurroundSound"
group.
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"lokkerman" <phil.steeples@gmail.com> Nov 29 07:17PM
SS
If I come to you and remove 5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of similar
tissue (but not yours) as a replacement; would you accept it?
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 19:11
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
Maybe someday this list will get beyond the ignorance that lumps all MP3s
together , ignoring the roles of bitrate, codec, characteristics of the
source music, and playback equipment. But today is not that day,
apparently.
On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman wrote:
Cannot agree more and a lot better put than me
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of realafrica
Sent: 28 November 2012 07:33
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
I won't attempt to cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
I am a great fan of new technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to
play cassettes in the car because it has no CD player and I would not swap
out cassettes for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor part
of my music collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to play flac.
I fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine as carriers
instead of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over the place! But,
why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac, just as
conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess any MP3s to
play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to MP3 when it is
either flac already or easily converted to flac.
I have never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because,
before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software that
played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC and their
player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from them!
WTF!
Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the potential for the same scenario
with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could not play my growing collection of
flac either, so they were pretty useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to
lossless flac and grown up enough to no longer have a use for empty3. But
that's just me. If others are satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy
it.
I just can't get it through my head why this free, open source format called
flac is not as readily available to use in car audio as that other free open
source format called mp3?
pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I like USB sticks, even SSDs in the future
maybe, but why not put some nice flac on them rather than empty3? Well I
gues you are forced to aren't you? After all what car audio can play any
flac? It's outrageous, it's not sensible. It's just market forces that
always get dumbed down to cater for the masses and I protest it!
.
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Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> Nov 30 12:52AM +0530
And the ignorance continues. If you understood what perceptual
coding is, you would understand that that analogy is ludicrous.
On
11/30/12 00:47, lokkerman wrote:
> SS
> If I come to you and
remove 5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of similar tissue (but not
yours) as a replacement; would you accept it?
> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
> SENT: 29 November 2012 19:11
> TO:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com
> SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound] Re:
Surround in the car
> Maybe someday this list will get beyond the
ignorance that lumps all MP3s together , ignoring the roles of bitrate,
codec, characteristics of the source music, and playback equipment. But
today is not that day, apparently.
> On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman
wrote:
>> Cannot agree more and a lot better put than me
FROM: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
[mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com] ON BEHALF OF realafrica
>> SENT:
28 November 2012 07:33
>> TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
>> SUBJECT:
Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
>> I won't attempt to
cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
>> I am a
great fan of new technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to play
cassettes in the car because it has no CD player and I would not swap
out cassettes for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor
part of my music collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to
play flac. I fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine
as carriers instead of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over
the place! But, why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac,
just as conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess
any MP3s to play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to
MP3 when it is either flac already or easily converted to flac.
>> I
have never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because,
before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software
that played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC
and their player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from
them!
>> WTF!
>> Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the potential
for the same scenario with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could not play
my growing collection of flac either, so they were pretty useless to me
anyway, as I'd moved on to lossless flac and grown up enough to no
longer have a use for empty3. But that's just me. If others are
satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy it.
>> I just can't get
it through my head why this free, open source format called flac is not
as readily available to use in car audio as that other free open source
format called mp3?
>> pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I like USB
sticks, even SSDs in the future maybe, but why not put some nice flac on
them rather than empty3? Well I gues you are forced to aren't you? After
all what car audio can play any flac? It's outrageous, it's not
sensible. It's just market forces that always get dumbed down to cater
for the masses and I protest it!
>> .
>> --
>> You received
this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"SurroundSound" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to
SurroundSound@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send
email to SurroundSound-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound [1]
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"lokkerman" <phil.steeples@gmail.com> Nov 29 07:51PM
SS
You are so easy to draw; lol
Made my day; thanks
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 19:23
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
And the ignorance continues. If you understood what perceptual coding is,
you would understand that that analogy is ludicrous.
On 11/30/12 00:47, lokkerman wrote:
SS
If I come to you and remove 5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of similar
tissue (but not yours) as a replacement; would you accept it?
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 19:11
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
Maybe someday this list will get beyond the ignorance that lumps all MP3s
together , ignoring the roles of bitrate, codec, characteristics of the
source music, and playback equipment. But today is not that day,
apparently.
On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman wrote:
Cannot agree more and a lot better put than me
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of realafrica
Sent: 28 November 2012 07:33
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
I won't attempt to cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
I am a great fan of new technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to
play cassettes in the car because it has no CD player and I would not swap
out cassettes for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor part
of my music collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to play flac.
I fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine as carriers
instead of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over the place! But,
why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac, just as
conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess any MP3s to
play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to MP3 when it is
either flac already or easily converted to flac.
I have never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because,
before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software that
played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC and their
player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from them!
WTF!
Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the potential for the same scenario
with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could not play my growing collection of
flac either, so they were pretty useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to
lossless flac and grown up enough to no longer have a use for empty3. But
that's just me. If others are satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy
it.
I just can't get it through my head why this free, open source format called
flac is not as readily available to use in car audio as that other free open
source format called mp3?
pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I like USB sticks, even SSDs in the future
maybe, but why not put some nice flac on them rather than empty3? Well I
gues you are forced to aren't you? After all what car audio can play any
flac? It's outrageous, it's not sensible. It's just market forces that
always get dumbed down to cater for the masses and I protest it!
.
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Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> Nov 30 01:24AM +0530
I never said being ignorant and being a troll were exclusive.
On
11/30/12 01:21, lokkerman wrote:
> SS
> You are so easy to draw;
lol
> Made my day; thanks
> FROM: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
[mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com] ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
SENT: 29 November 2012 19:23
> TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
> And the
ignorance continues. If you understood what perceptual coding is, you
would understand that that analogy is ludicrous.
> On 11/30/12
00:47, lokkerman wrote:
>> SS
>> If I come to you and remove
5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of similar tissue (but not yours) as
a replacement; would you accept it?
>> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
>> SENT: 29 November 2012 19:11
>> TO:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com
>> SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound] Re:
Surround in the car
>> Maybe someday this list will get beyond the
ignorance that lumps all MP3s together , ignoring the roles of bitrate,
codec, characteristics of the source music, and playback equipment. But
today is not that day, apparently.
>> On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman
wrote:
>>> Cannot agree more and a lot better put than me
FROM: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
[mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com] ON BEHALF OF realafrica
SENT: 28 November 2012 07:33
>>> TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
SUBJECT: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
>>> I won't
attempt to cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
>>> I am a great fan of new technolgy, even though it was me saying I
have to play cassettes in the car because it has no CD player and I
would not swap out cassettes for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are
a very minor part of my music collection.I was looking for a way to swap
it out to play flac. I fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both)
would be fine as carriers instead of spinning discs or tape and their
cases all over the place! But, why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when
one can use flac, just as conveniently? Much more conveniently for me,
as I don't possess any MP3s to play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB
music collection to MP3 when it is either flac already or easily
converted to flac.
>>> I have never bought into the con of iTunes
walled garden, mostly because, before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their
propriety empty3, and software that played them. I bought many of them.
Then $ony ditched both ATRAC and their player and I could no longer play
the files I had bought from them!
>>> WTF!
>>> Since then, I boycott
$ony and side step the potential for the same scenario with iTunes.
Historically, iTunes could not play my growing collection of flac
either, so they were pretty useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to
lossless flac and grown up enough to no longer have a use for empty3.
But that's just me. If others are satisfied with the iTunes deal let
them enjoy it.
>>> I just can't get it through my head why this free,
open source format called flac is not as readily available to use in car
audio as that other free open source format called mp3?
pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I like USB sticks, even SSDs in the
future maybe, but why not put some nice flac on them rather than empty3?
Well I gues you are forced to aren't you? After all what car audio can
play any flac? It's outrageous, it's not sensible. It's just market
forces that always get dumbed down to cater for the masses and I protest
it!
>>> .
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you
are subscribed to the Google Groups "SurroundSound" group.
>>> To post
to this group, send email to SurroundSound@googlegroups.com
>>> To
unsubscribe from this group, send email to
SurroundSound-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> For more options, visit
this group at http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound [1]
--
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>>> To unsubscribe from this
group, send email to SurroundSound-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> For
more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound [1]
>> --
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"lokkerman" <phil.steeples@gmail.com> Nov 29 08:00PM
And hey I do know that someone who has followed tosh research, with tosh
dummy heads can come up with tosh dummy science
But in fact it is academically proven (BS, BS. BS) by the tosh dummy heads
themselves, now how's that for a fact..?
But then if you subscribe to tosh dummy head philosophy, peer reviewed by
peer tosh dummy heads, it has to be correct hasn't it? Cos' if it wasn't it
wouldn't be accepted by the tosh dummy heads, therefore got to be right?
Accepting that tosh dummy head science is correct in the first place,
however to challenge it you need to be a tosh dummy head. Now watch you grab
this one?
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 19:23
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
And the ignorance continues. If you understood what perceptual coding is,
you would understand that that analogy is ludicrous.
On 11/30/12 00:47, lokkerman wrote:
SS
If I come to you and remove 5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of similar
tissue (but not yours) as a replacement; would you accept it?
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 19:11
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
Maybe someday this list will get beyond the ignorance that lumps all MP3s
together , ignoring the roles of bitrate, codec, characteristics of the
source music, and playback equipment. But today is not that day,
apparently.
On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman wrote:
Cannot agree more and a lot better put than me
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of realafrica
Sent: 28 November 2012 07:33
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
I won't attempt to cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
I am a great fan of new technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to
play cassettes in the car because it has no CD player and I would not swap
out cassettes for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor part
of my music collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to play flac.
I fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine as carriers
instead of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over the place! But,
why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac, just as
conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess any MP3s to
play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to MP3 when it is
either flac already or easily converted to flac.
I have never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because,
before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software that
played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC and their
player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from them!
WTF!
Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the potential for the same scenario
with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could not play my growing collection of
flac either, so they were pretty useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to
lossless flac and grown up enough to no longer have a use for empty3. But
that's just me. If others are satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy
it.
I just can't get it through my head why this free, open source format called
flac is not as readily available to use in car audio as that other free open
source format called mp3?
pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I like USB sticks, even SSDs in the future
maybe, but why not put some nice flac on them rather than empty3? Well I
gues you are forced to aren't you? After all what car audio can play any
flac? It's outrageous, it's not sensible. It's just market forces that
always get dumbed down to cater for the masses and I protest it!
.
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Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> Nov 30 01:35AM +0530
I know you haven't a clue. No need to elaborate the point further.
On 11/30/12 01:30, lokkerman wrote:
> And hey I do know that someone
who has followed tosh research, with tosh dummy heads can come up with
tosh dummy science
> But in fact it is academically proven (BS, BS.
BS) by the tosh dummy heads themselves, now how's that for a fact….?
> But then if you subscribe to tosh dummy head philosophy, peer
reviewed by peer tosh dummy heads, it has to be correct hasn't it? Cos'
if it wasn't it wouldn't be accepted by the tosh dummy heads, therefore
got to be right? Accepting that tosh dummy head science is correct in
the first place, however to challenge it you need to be a tosh dummy
head. Now watch you grab this one?
> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
> SENT: 29 November 2012 19:23
> TO:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com
> SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound] Re:
Surround in the car
> And the ignorance continues. If you understood
what perceptual coding is, you would understand that that analogy is
ludicrous.
> On 11/30/12 00:47, lokkerman wrote:
>> SS
If I come to you and remove 5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of
similar tissue (but not yours) as a replacement; would you accept it?
>> FROM: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
[mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com] ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
SENT: 29 November 2012 19:11
>> TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
>> Maybe
someday this list will get beyond the ignorance that lumps all MP3s
together , ignoring the roles of bitrate, codec, characteristics of the
source music, and playback equipment. But today is not that day,
apparently.
>> On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman wrote:
>>> Cannot
agree more and a lot better put than me
>>> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF realafrica
>>> SENT: 28 November 2012 07:33
>>> TO:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [SurroundSound] Re:
Surround in the car
>>> I won't attempt to cover everything, point
by point, in reply to pj-mckay
>>> I am a great fan of new
technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to play cassettes in the
car because it has no CD player and I would not swap out cassettes for
CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor part of my music
collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to play flac. I fully
agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine as carriers instead
of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over the place! But, why!
oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac, just as
conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess any MP3s
to play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to MP3 when
it is either flac already or easily converted to flac.
>>> I have never
bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because, before
Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software that
played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC and
their player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from
them!
>>> WTF!
>>> Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the
potential for the same scenario with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could
not play my growing collection of flac either, so they were pretty
useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to lossless flac and grown up
enough to no longer have a use for empty3. But that's just me. If others
are satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy it.
>>> I just can't
get it through my head why this free, open source format called flac is
not as readily available to use in car audio as that other free open
source format called mp3?
>>> pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I
like USB sticks, even SSDs in the future maybe, but why not put some
nice flac on them rather than empty3? Well I gues you are forced to
aren't you? After all what car audio can play any flac? It's outrageous,
it's not sensible. It's just market forces that always get dumbed down
to cater for the masses and I protest it!
>>> .
>>> --
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Groups "SurroundSound" group.
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"lokkerman" <phil.steeples@gmail.com> Nov 29 08:06PM
On nil to me
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 20:05
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
I know you haven't a clue. No need to elaborate the point further.
On 11/30/12 01:30, lokkerman wrote:
And hey I do know that someone who has followed tosh research, with tosh
dummy heads can come up with tosh dummy science
But in fact it is academically proven (BS, BS. BS) by the tosh dummy heads
themselves, now how's that for a fact..?
But then if you subscribe to tosh dummy head philosophy, peer reviewed by
peer tosh dummy heads, it has to be correct hasn't it? Cos' if it wasn't it
wouldn't be accepted by the tosh dummy heads, therefore got to be right?
Accepting that tosh dummy head science is correct in the first place,
however to challenge it you need to be a tosh dummy head. Now watch you grab
this one?
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 19:23
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
And the ignorance continues. If you understood what perceptual coding is,
you would understand that that analogy is ludicrous.
On 11/30/12 00:47, lokkerman wrote:
SS
If I come to you and remove 5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of similar
tissue (but not yours) as a replacement; would you accept it?
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 19:11
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
Maybe someday this list will get beyond the ignorance that lumps all MP3s
together , ignoring the roles of bitrate, codec, characteristics of the
source music, and playback equipment. But today is not that day,
apparently.
On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman wrote:
Cannot agree more and a lot better put than me
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of realafrica
Sent: 28 November 2012 07:33
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
I won't attempt to cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
I am a great fan of new technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to
play cassettes in the car because it has no CD player and I would not swap
out cassettes for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor part
of my music collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to play flac.
I fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine as carriers
instead of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over the place! But,
why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac, just as
conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess any MP3s to
play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to MP3 when it is
either flac already or easily converted to flac.
I have never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because,
before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software that
played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC and their
player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from them!
WTF!
Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the potential for the same scenario
with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could not play my growing collection of
flac either, so they were pretty useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to
lossless flac and grown up enough to no longer have a use for empty3. But
that's just me. If others are satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy
it.
I just can't get it through my head why this free, open source format called
flac is not as readily available to use in car audio as that other free open
source format called mp3?
pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I like USB sticks, even SSDs in the future
maybe, but why not put some nice flac on them rather than empty3? Well I
gues you are forced to aren't you? After all what car audio can play any
flac? It's outrageous, it's not sensible. It's just market forces that
always get dumbed down to cater for the masses and I protest it!
.
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John Kleitz <johnkleitz@gmail.com> Nov 30 09:12AM +1300
Couldn't agree more, and Apples tendency to secure their share by binding
users into their formats is very selfish, but understandable in order to
maximise profits. One huge problem I have with Apple (and other companies)
is why an American company manufactures almost completely in third world
countries, rather than the US with it's huge employment problem. Sure, the
production cost per iPhone may double from maybe $5 to $10 dollars, but
that would hardly make much difference as the profit per unit is still in
the hundreds of dollars per unit. Development costs stay the same as that
is presumably carried out in the US. Now, if all American companies (Nike,
Microsoft, the list goes on and on) were required to do this, all current
economic woes for the US would almost instantly be resolved and the tax
revenue would additionally experience a huge boost.
Please correct me if you find a fallacy in my argument.
I realize, I'm drifting off topic again... Sorry 'bout that, but I am very
interested in your opinion on that.
Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> Nov 30 01:54AM +0530
proudly ignorant of topic: check
expresses vehement opinion about
that topic: check
declares itself a troll: check
makes typo while
boasting of superiority: check
You do keep rising to expectations,
I'll give you that.
On 11/30/12 01:36, lokkerman wrote:
> On nil to
me
> FROM: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
[mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com] ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
SENT: 29 November 2012 20:05
> TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
> I know you
haven't a clue. No need to elaborate the point further.
> On
11/30/12 01:30, lokkerman wrote:
>> And hey I do know that someone
who has followed tosh research, with tosh dummy heads can come up with
tosh dummy science
>> But in fact it is academically proven (BS,
BS. BS) by the tosh dummy heads themselves, now how's that for a fact….?
>> But then if you subscribe to tosh dummy head philosophy, peer
reviewed by peer tosh dummy heads, it has to be correct hasn't it? Cos'
if it wasn't it wouldn't be accepted by the tosh dummy heads, therefore
got to be right? Accepting that tosh dummy head science is correct in
the first place, however to challenge it you need to be a tosh dummy
head. Now watch you grab this one?
>> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
>> SENT: 29 November 2012 19:23
>> TO:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com
>> SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound] Re:
Surround in the car
>> And the ignorance continues. If you
understood what perceptual coding is, you would understand that that
analogy is ludicrous.
>> On 11/30/12 00:47, lokkerman wrote:
>>> SS
>>> If I come to you and remove 5kg of your flesh and give
you 5Kg of similar tissue (but not yours) as a replacement; would you
accept it?
>>> FROM: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
[mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com] ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
SENT: 29 November 2012 19:11
>>> TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
>>> Maybe
someday this list will get beyond the ignorance that lumps all MP3s
together , ignoring the roles of bitrate, codec, characteristics of the
source music, and playback equipment. But today is not that day,
apparently.
>>> On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman wrote:
Cannot agree more and a lot better put than me
>>>> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF realafrica
>>>> SENT: 28 November 2012 07:33
>>>> TO:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com
>>>> SUBJECT: Re: [SurroundSound] Re:
Surround in the car
>>>> I won't attempt to cover everything,
point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
>>>> I am a great fan of new
technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to play cassettes in the
car because it has no CD player and I would not swap out cassettes for
CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor part of my music
collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to play flac. I fully
agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine as carriers instead
of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over the place! But, why!
oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac, just as
conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess any MP3s
to play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to MP3 when
it is either flac already or easily converted to flac.
>>>> I have
never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because,
before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software
that played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC
and their player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from
them!
>>>> WTF!
>>>> Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the
potential for the same scenario with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could
not play my growing collection of flac either, so they were pretty
useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to lossless flac and grown up
enough to no longer have a use for empty3. But that's just me. If others
are satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy it.
>>>> I just can't
get it through my head why this free, open source format called flac is
not as readily available to use in car audio as that other free open
source format called mp3?
>>>> pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I
like USB sticks, even SSDs in the future maybe, but why not put some
nice flac on them rather than empty3? Well I gues you are forced to
aren't you? After all what car audio can play any flac? It's outrageous,
it's not sensible. It's just market forces that always get dumbed down
to cater for the masses and I protest it!
>>>> .
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "SurroundSound" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to
SurroundSound@googlegroups.com
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send
email to SurroundSound-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> For more
options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound [1]
>>>> --
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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email to SurroundSound-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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options, visit this group at
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>>> --
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John Kleitz <johnkleitz@gmail.com> Nov 30 09:29AM +1300
Point taken, Promise to shut up now. Ta
Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> Nov 30 02:11AM +0530
Oh, am I bothering you, dear? Terribly sorry.
On 11/30/12 01:59,
John Kleitz wrote:
> Point taken, Promise to shut up now. Ta
> On
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com>
wrote:
>> proudly ignorant of topic: check
>> expresses vehement
opinion about that topic: check
>> declares itself a troll: check
>> makes typo while boasting of superiority: check
>> You do
keep rising to expectations, I'll give you that.
>> On 11/30/12
01:36, lokkerman wrote:
>>> On nil to me
>>> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
>>> SENT: 29 November 2012 20:05
TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
>>> SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound] Re:
Surround in the car
>>> I know you haven't a clue. No need to
elaborate the point further.
>>> On 11/30/12 01:30, lokkerman
wrote:
>>>> And hey I do know that someone who has followed tosh
research, with tosh dummy heads can come up with tosh dummy science
>>>> But in fact it is academically proven (BS, BS. BS) by the
tosh dummy heads themselves, now how's that for a fact….?
But then if you subscribe to tosh dummy head philosophy, peer reviewed
by peer tosh dummy heads, it has to be correct hasn't it? Cos' if it
wasn't it wouldn't be accepted by the tosh dummy heads, therefore got to
be right? Accepting that tosh dummy head science is correct in the first
place, however to challenge it you need to be a tosh dummy head. Now
watch you grab this one?
>>>> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
>>>> SENT: 29 November 2012 19:23
>>>> TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
>>>> SUBJECT: RE:
[SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
>>>> And the ignorance
continues. If you understood what perceptual coding is, you would
understand that that analogy is ludicrous.
>>>> On 11/30/12
00:47, lokkerman wrote:
>>>>> SS
>>>>> If I come to you
and remove 5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of similar tissue (but not
yours) as a replacement; would you accept it?
>>>>> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF Steven Sullivan
>>>>> SENT: 29 November 2012 19:11
TO: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
>>>>> SUBJECT: RE: [SurroundSound]
Re: Surround in the car
>>>>> Maybe someday this list will get
beyond the ignorance that lumps all MP3s together , ignoring the roles
of bitrate, codec, characteristics of the source music, and playback
equipment. But today is not that day, apparently.
>>>>> On
11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman wrote:
>>>>>> Cannot agree more and a
lot better put than me
>>>>>> FROM:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
ON BEHALF OF realafrica
>>>>>> SENT: 28 November 2012 07:33
>>>>>> TO:
surroundsound@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> SUBJECT: Re: [SurroundSound] Re:
Surround in the car
>>>>>> I won't attempt to cover everything,
point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
>>>>>> I am a great fan of
new technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to play cassettes in
the car because it has no CD player and I would not swap out cassettes
for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor part of my
music collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to play flac. I
fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine as carriers
instead of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over the place!
But, why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac, just as
conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess any MP3s
to play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to MP3 when
it is either flac already or easily converted to flac.
>>>>>> I have
never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because,
before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software
that played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC
and their player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from
them!
>>>>>> WTF!
>>>>>> Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the
potential for the same scenario with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could
not play my growing collection of flac either, so they were pretty
useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to lossless flac and grown up
enough to no longer have a use for empty3. But that's just me. If others
are satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy it.
>>>>>> I just
can't get it through my head why this free, open source format called
flac is not as readily available to use in car audio as that other free
open source format called mp3?
>>>>>> pj-mckay I like your SD
cards, I like USB sticks, even SSDs in the future maybe, but why not put
some nice flac on them rather than empty3? Well I gues you are forced to
aren't you? After all what car audio can play any flac? It's outrageous,
it's not sensible. It's just market forces that always get dumbed down
to cater for the masses and I protest it!
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed
to the Google Groups "SurroundSound" group.
>>>>>> To post to this
group, send email to SurroundSound@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> To
unsubscribe from this group, send email to
SurroundSound-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> For more options,
visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound [1]
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are
subscribed to the Google Groups "SurroundSound" group.
>>>>>> To post to
this group, send email to SurroundSound@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> To
unsubscribe from this group, send email to
SurroundSound-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> For more options,
visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound
[1]
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are
subscribed to the Google Groups "SurroundSound" group.
>>>>> To post to
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>>>>> To
unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>>>>> For more options, visit
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>>>>> --
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>>>>> For more options, visit
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>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
the Google Groups "SurroundSound" group.
>>>> To post to this group,
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--
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>> --
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> --
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Links:
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"lokkerman" <phil.steeples@gmail.com> Nov 29 10:56PM
Spalchicker error : check
Humour bypass: check
Hubris error: check
Want more? : check
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 20:42
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
Oh, am I bothering you, dear? Terribly sorry.
On 11/30/12 01:59, John Kleitz wrote:
Point taken, Promise to shut up now. Ta
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> wrote:
proudly ignorant of topic: check
expresses vehement opinion about that topic: check
declares itself a troll: check
makes typo while boasting of superiority: check
You do keep rising to expectations, I'll give you that.
On 11/30/12 01:36, lokkerman wrote:
On nil to me
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 20:05
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
I know you haven't a clue. No need to elaborate the point further.
On 11/30/12 01:30, lokkerman wrote:
And hey I do know that someone who has followed tosh research, with tosh
dummy heads can come up with tosh dummy science
But in fact it is academically proven (BS, BS. BS) by the tosh dummy heads
themselves, now how's that for a fact..?
But then if you subscribe to tosh dummy head philosophy, peer reviewed by
peer tosh dummy heads, it has to be correct hasn't it? Cos' if it wasn't it
wouldn't be accepted by the tosh dummy heads, therefore got to be right?
Accepting that tosh dummy head science is correct in the first place,
however to challenge it you need to be a tosh dummy head. Now watch you grab
this one?
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 19:23
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
And the ignorance continues. If you understood what perceptual coding is,
you would understand that that analogy is ludicrous.
On 11/30/12 00:47, lokkerman wrote:
SS
If I come to you and remove 5kg of your flesh and give you 5Kg of similar
tissue (but not yours) as a replacement; would you accept it?
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 19:11
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
Maybe someday this list will get beyond the ignorance that lumps all MP3s
together , ignoring the roles of bitrate, codec, characteristics of the
source music, and playback equipment. But today is not that day,
apparently.
On 11/28/12 13:48, lokkerman wrote:
Cannot agree more and a lot better put than me
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of realafrica
Sent: 28 November 2012 07:33
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
I won't attempt to cover everything, point by point, in reply to pj-mckay
I am a great fan of new technolgy, even though it was me saying I have to
play cassettes in the car because it has no CD player and I would not swap
out cassettes for CD anyway. I have some CDs but they are a very minor part
of my music collection.I was looking for a way to swap it out to play flac.
I fully agree that SD cards / USB sicks (both) would be fine as carriers
instead of spinning discs or tape and their cases all over the place! But,
why! oh why! degrade sound to MP3 when one can use flac, just as
conveniently? Much more conveniently for me, as I don't possess any MP3s to
play and I'm not about to convert my 8TB music collection to MP3 when it is
either flac already or easily converted to flac.
I have never bought into the con of iTunes walled garden, mostly because,
before Apple, $ony had ATRAC as their propriety empty3, and software that
played them. I bought many of them. Then $ony ditched both ATRAC and their
player and I could no longer play the files I had bought from them!
WTF!
Since then, I boycott $ony and side step the potential for the same scenario
with iTunes. Historically, iTunes could not play my growing collection of
flac either, so they were pretty useless to me anyway, as I'd moved on to
lossless flac and grown up enough to no longer have a use for empty3. But
that's just me. If others are satisfied with the iTunes deal let them enjoy
it.
I just can't get it through my head why this free, open source format called
flac is not as readily available to use in car audio as that other free open
source format called mp3?
pj-mckay I like your SD cards, I like USB sticks, even SSDs in the future
maybe, but why not put some nice flac on them rather than empty3? Well I
gues you are forced to aren't you? After all what car audio can play any
flac? It's outrageous, it's not sensible. It's just market forces that
always get dumbed down to cater for the masses and I protest it!
.
--
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"lokkerman" <phil.steeples@gmail.com> Nov 29 11:06PM
...
John
Very valid points and for those of us that care, it appears that profit, or
in a lot of circles greed, comes foremost over global stability, well-being,
the use of resources and the things us all need to have.
We are in need of the word that has now become a stigma and that is true
socialism, which is not by any means related to old world communism, but the
fact that we need to build a society that is balanced and cares and that it
is not financed by the people at the bottom. It is most obvious that over
the last ten years that the least pay for the most, which is by nature
anti-society.
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of John Kleitz
Sent: 29 November 2012 20:29
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
Point taken, Promise to shut up now. Ta
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> wrote:
proudly ignorant of topic: check
expresses vehement opinion about that topic: check
declares itself a troll: check
makes typo while boasting of superiority: check
You do keep rising to expectations, I'll give you that.
On 11/30/12 01:36, lokkerman wrote:
On nil to me
From: surroundsound@googlegroups.com [mailto:surroundsound@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Steven Sullivan
Sent: 29 November 2012 20:05
To: surroundsound@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SurroundSound] Re: Surround in the car
I know you haven't a clue. No need to elaborate the point further.
On 11/30/12 01:30, lokkerman wrote:
And hey I do know that someone who has followed tosh research, with tosh
dummy heads can come up with tosh dummy science
But in fact it is academically proven (BS, BS. BS) by the tosh dummy heads
themselves, now how's that for a fact..?
But then if you subscribe to tosh dummy head philosophy, peer reviewed by
peer tosh dummy heads, it has to be correct hasn't it? Cos' if it wasn't it
wouldn't be accepted by the tosh dummy heads, therefore got to be right?
Accepting that tosh dummy head science is correct in the first place,
however to challenge it you need to be a tosh d
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