S
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 7:46 PM, realafrica <paul.gambia@gmail.com> wrote:
Now now boys, please don't take yourselves too seriously.
On Jan 30, 7:32 pm, "Steven Sullivan" <ssu...@panix.com> wrote:
> There is also a word for people who call others 't..t' then run away:
> C....D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Wind up or no wind up this is my last comment on the matter with Steven.
> > We
> > have a word for these type of folks here - it starts with T and ends with
> > T
> > and is four letters.
>
> >> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound-Hide quoted text -> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 1:40 AM, Britre <britre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Yea that last line made me laugh out loud too! If I had a nickle for
> >> everything I misremembered I would have a fair amount of beer money to
> >> really misremember everything.
>
> >> On Jan 29, 6:55 pm, realafrica <paul.gam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > LOL!
> >> > Someone was planted in here to wind some of us up.
> >> > He can't possibly be really serious!
> >> > It's a joke that's all.
> >> > It took me a while to see how funny it is, but now I do & I'm hooked!
> >> > I keep coming back here to see the latest laugh!
> >> > What a wind up!
> >> > LOL!
>
> >> > On Jan 29, 10:57 pm, "Steven Sullivan" <ssu...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > Because, perhaps unwittingly, you insult my judgement by telling
> >> me
> >> what
> >> > > > I
> >> > > > hear is not real.
>
> >> > > I'm 'telling you' not to presume it's real. Researchers would 'tell
> >> > > you' the same.
>
> >> > > > And yet I have spent many years proving otherwise.
>
> >> > > I'm 'telling you' that methods of 'proving' are typically more
> >> rigorous
> >> > > in research, than at home, and why that is. Researchers would 'tell
> >> you'
> >> > > the same.
>
> >> > > > Steven
> >> > > > you need tact and to use some empathy which is clearly not in your
> >> set of
> >> > > > scientific tools.
>
> >> > > I was met almost immediately with hostility to posts that were quite
> >> > > 'tactful' -- clearly we are reading different posts? At this point
> >> I'm
> >> > > less concerned with tact.
>
> >> > > > What we require is someone to clearly and scientifically
> >> > > > state why some of us hear timbre, tonality, depth, height,
> >> richness
> >> and
> >> > > > timing when others do not.
>
> >> > > And as I've said, you need to step back first, and acknowledge the
> >> many
> >> > > sources of error in the methods 'we' (you) have used to 'prove' that
> >> you
> >> > > heard differences in these things in the first place.
>
> >> > > It's also a bit rich for 'you' to be demanding precise *scientific*
> >> > > explanations when you have evinced zero interest in, and even
> >> hostility
> >> > > to, how perceptual research is done.
>
> >> > > > Science is about discovery and discovering why
> >> > > > some folks can perceive things on a different paradigm, it's not
> >> about
> >> > > > whether these things exist because I know, and not aggressively,
> >> that in a
> >> > > > room with you with the correct and not so expensively high end
> >> gear,
> >> that
> >> > > > I
> >> > > > could demonstrate all of those aforementioned elements and perhaps
> >> a
> >> lot
> >> > > > more.
> >> > > > If you appreciated this then you would have a different approach,
> >> > > > unfortunately you wish not to learn but to keep quoting perhaps
> >> peer
> >> > > > approved papers by people in a similar vein to you.
>
> >> > > It is not a matter of me 'appreciating' your anecdotal reports. You
> >> keep
> >> > > asserting as definite 'knowledge' on your part, things that any
> >> serious
> >> > > researcher would want more evidence for first. You've lumped a
> >> variety
> >> > > of elements into the same grab bag -- "timbre, tonality, depth,
> >> height,
> >> > > richness and timing" -- rather than try to dissect what the formal
> >> > > meanings of all those are, we might start more basically with
> >> defining
> >> > > what two things are being compared. Is it two loudspeakers, two CD
> >> > > players, two cables, two room EQ algorithms, two audio formats, two
> >> > > masterings?
>
> >> > > > I don't need people to tell me why I cannot hear what I know I
> >> hear
> >> but
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > find out why some of us hear things in a different way' and then
> >> pass on
> >> > > > this to share with others, we need to get back to quality and
> >> appreciating
> >> > > > the values of real sounds and not the tinnitus of personal audio
> >> devices.
>
> >> > > You're so wedded to the language of what you 'know' that there
> >> doesn't
> >> > > seem to be room for research into what you 'know'. The issue is
> >> much
> >> more
> >> > > basic and , apparently, threatening to you: how do you KNOW what
> >> you
> >> > > claim to 'know'?
>
> >> > > > As a footnote I remember well the research into PASC and ATRACS
> >> both
> >> which
> >> > > > lead to MP3 - the scientists behind this stated that this would
> >> give
> >> the
> >> > > > same results as a linear recording/playback - who was right?
> >> Perhaps
> >> > > > though
> >> > > > you could even quote evidence to state that MP3 is perfect.
>
> >> > > I have shared beers, and many online exchanges, with people who
> >> helped
> >> > > developed lossy perceptual coding. I have never seen it written or
> >> heard
> >> > > it said by anyone knowledgable that mp3 or other lossy codecs are
> >> > > 'perfect' in the sense of 'ALWAYS indistinguishable from source'.
>
> >> > > And again, here you are going off on a new, disgressive tangent ;
> >> are
> >> we
> >> > > to spend three or four posts determining exactly what you are
> >> claiming
> >> > > about mp3, and whether it is in fact something you 'remember well'
> >> instead
> >> > > of misremember?
>
> >> > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Steven Sullivan
> >> <ssu...@panix.com>
> >> > > > wrote:
>
> >> > > >> Does it enrage you to know that when researchers study hearing,
> >> they
> >> > > >> don't
> >> > > >> accept 'I know what I heard' as sufficient evidence? Would you
> >> accuse
> >> > > >> them of 'borrowing' others ears, and 'knowing better', on that
> >> basis?
>
> >> > > >> If not, why do you keep making such false and inflammatory claims
> >> about
> >> > > >> what I have written?
>
> >> > > >> > I do not moderate unless the post cites areas such as the hub
> >> or
> >> > > >> slanders
> >> > > >> > members personally. Although I personally disagree with Steven
> >> > > >> because
> >> > > >> he
> >> > > >> > has borrowed my ears and knows better than what I hear myself,
> >> with my
> >> > > >> own
> >> > > >> > ears; lol. He is free to have an opinion, So if we differ we
> >> do,,,
> >> > > >> That's
> >> > > >> > the great thing with democracy.
>
> >> > > >> --
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> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
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